So you say. Actually, you are the one telling a story. If youy have such insights into Jesus' mind answer this: what is God's household over which the slave was appointed? If you can't answer that question Scripturally then you really have nothing but an opinion, and a very ignorant one at that. So, what is God's household Lark? / You Know
You Know
JoinedPosts by You Know
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29
WHY THE WATCHTOWER IS DOOMED!
by You Know inisaiah 30:21 is an oft quoted scripture by the watchtower.
it reads: "and your own ears will hear a word behind you saying: "this is the way.
walk in it, you people, in case you should go to the right or in case you should go to the left.
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Dear Brother "You Know"
by AMNESIAN inbrother, please, if you would, inform as to exactly what your genuine view is of the wbts and, particularly, the gb in relation to bible prophecy, christianity, and its self-professed role as the so-called "fds" and sole spokesman for jehovah?
much of what you post (or, at least, the posts i've read) is clearly at tremendous odds with their published teachings, yet, on its face, your position seems to be as one of their staunchest defenders/supporters.
i don't wish to in any way ridicule you ---there's a bit too much of that around here (from you included!
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You Know
It [love] certainly wasn't something that many of us here experienced much of in the WT
That's not been my experience. But, part of the problem may rest with you. In fact I am sure of it. If you didn't experience love among God's people it is because you were unloving yourself. Jesus revealed that that's the way Jehovah's universe works. The more you give the more you get. Try it. It works. / You Know
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29
WHY THE WATCHTOWER IS DOOMED!
by You Know inisaiah 30:21 is an oft quoted scripture by the watchtower.
it reads: "and your own ears will hear a word behind you saying: "this is the way.
walk in it, you people, in case you should go to the right or in case you should go to the left.
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You Know
Well there Booby, at least you managed a reply without any my-God-will-kill-you's.
Where have I ever replied in such a manner? I think you are becoming a delusional paranoid.
You first have to prove that this "slave" is a composite rather than an illustration of individual Christian rewards. Neither you nor your Mommy has ever done so. Without this foundation, the rest of your claims are meaningless.
That's easy Fraudbacker. Of course it requires the use of reason, so I don't know where that will leave you in this matter. But it is obvious that the illustration does not apply to the reward or punishment of individual Christians for the very reason that Jesus said that the slave was appointed over the master's entire household of servants. So it is a position of responsibility over others of God's household. Do all Christians have that sort of authority and responsibility? Of course not. So your imagined application to each individual is nonsensical. But, to establish the fact that the faithful slave has authority over other Christians, one only has to turn to the more detailed account of the faithful slave found at the 12th chapter of Luke. Verse 48 that concludes Jesus' discussion of the slave by driving home the point of accountability, says: "...The one whom people put in charge of much, they will demand more than usual of him." Clearly, the faithful slave is the one whom Christ put in charge.
Now, as for whether that slave in charge is an individual or a composite body, again, the power of reason will have to be employed, actually in this instance it is merely common sense, but like I say, I don't know where that will leave you. But the mere fact that Jesus said that the slave could have two different destinies, depending on his faithfulness, indicates that there is more than one individual slave. If it's possible for the slave to simultaneously beat his fellows and faithfully feed them, it is clear that there are two different slaves with the same assignment to feed Christ's household. The key though that allows us to identify the slave as a class of anointed Christians, is the context of the 12 chapter of Luke. Jesus had just finished assuring his apostles that his Father had approved of giving the little flock the kingdom. Then Jesus strongly encouraged them to remain in faithful expectation because Christ would return when they thought it least likely. Peter than asked if Christ was saying this to the apostles only or to all. That's when Jesus replied with the question: "Who really is the faithful steward?" So, Jesus was deliberately ambiguous because the real slave would not appear on the scene until the arrival of Christ, because that was the context of the illustration in the first place. However, it should be noted that in Luke Jesus was not giving his detailed prophecy of his presence. But, whether the faithful steward disignation applies to the modern apostolic governing body or to all of the little flock is largely irrelevant. The true slave will be identified by his feeding the household of Christ and by his faithfully keeping on the watch for Jesus' arrival. Unquestionably that is what the Watchtower has been doing all these many years.
I'll ask you this: WHEN was that "slave" appointed? If you claim it was appointed in the 1st century, then you'll have to demonstrate and prove that present JW leaders are the successors and the only successors to that early "slave". If you claim a date later than the 1st century, then prove it.
That's an easy question to answer but I am sure that it will be impossible for you to accept, not due to any defect in the answer, but rather to the sheer spiritual blindness of your own mind and heart. Examining both acounts carefully, we note some interesting contrasting details. In Luke's account Jesus speaks of both appointments of his slave as taking place at a time yet future from the time when he was speaking directly to his apostles. Now, at that particular time, Jesus had already chosen his 12 as his appointed successors. In effect they were appointed over his household already at that time. Yet, at Luke 12:42 Jesus referred to the original appointment as still to take place. That indicates that the apostles were not the ones directly being spoken of in the illustration although they certainly set the pattern for a future slave to feed Christ's little sheep as Jesus commanded his apostles to do. Now, as to when such an appointment might take place, in Matthew's account, Jesus speaks in the past tense as if the first appointment of the slave has already taken place. The reason for the difference is because in Luke's account Jesus had not yet revealed the prophecy concerning his presence leading up to the revelation of the Son of Man. In Matthew's account however, it is as if Jesus speaks to his disciples who would be living DURING his presence. That's why Jesus says: "When you see all these things occurring." Obviously the apostles didn't see the fulfillment of the sign of Christ's presence. That was reserved for his future household of anointed ones to observe. So the faithful slave is logically appointed to his first post over the domestics, to feed them, during the period of Jesus' ongoing presence. At his manifestation is when he rewards or punishes accordingly. That is yet in the future for our point of reference. So that's why in Matthew Jesus also speaks of a future appointment for his faithful slave.
Of course, we know you can't prove anything at all, and so will resort to your usual blustering "my God will kill you soon!"
I really think my recent installment of "DOOM" articles must have unnerved you. LOL
Prove your contention by scriptural and historical references. But you can't do that either. In fact, you can't even prove when Christ's "parousia" supposedly began.
Nonsense. There is a mountain of evidence that the system is finished. You just refuse to accept it. And I am not going to waste my time trying to convince someone as unreasonable as yourself. The very fact that you are so outspokenly against the truth of Jesus' presence is the fulfillment of a number of prophecies. Ironic, isn't it Fraudbacker? You demand proof and yet you and your many apostate associates are living proof of Christ's presence.
again, Booby Old Don't Know Beans, you completely failed to understand another major point I brought out:
Your points have been addressed and refuted. But you lack the honesty, humility, and the spiritual comprehension to recognize or acknowledge that fact. / You Know
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Dear Brother "You Know"
by AMNESIAN inbrother, please, if you would, inform as to exactly what your genuine view is of the wbts and, particularly, the gb in relation to bible prophecy, christianity, and its self-professed role as the so-called "fds" and sole spokesman for jehovah?
much of what you post (or, at least, the posts i've read) is clearly at tremendous odds with their published teachings, yet, on its face, your position seems to be as one of their staunchest defenders/supporters.
i don't wish to in any way ridicule you ---there's a bit too much of that around here (from you included!
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You Know
On the other hand, Satan has never killed anyone. He can't.
One would be hard pressed to find a more ignorant post than yours. There is so much error and untruth in what you wrote that I would be all morning trying to straighten you out, assuming that you could even be set straight. But as regards the above quote, you are directly at odds with Jesus. At John 8:44 Jesus said that the Devil "was a manslayer when he began." Also at the time of Jesus' arrest, Christ indicated that the reason he had been handed over was because the hour had come for the authority of the darkness. So the Bible reveals that Satan is the one responsible for Jesus' death. Furthermore, the book of Acts says that Christ came to "break up the works of the Devil" because that one has the means to cause death. Clearly you are either cluless about the Bible or you are deliberately lying. Why don't you just stick with MAD magazines and leave the Bible alone? / You Know
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Dear Brother "You Know"
by AMNESIAN inbrother, please, if you would, inform as to exactly what your genuine view is of the wbts and, particularly, the gb in relation to bible prophecy, christianity, and its self-professed role as the so-called "fds" and sole spokesman for jehovah?
much of what you post (or, at least, the posts i've read) is clearly at tremendous odds with their published teachings, yet, on its face, your position seems to be as one of their staunchest defenders/supporters.
i don't wish to in any way ridicule you ---there's a bit too much of that around here (from you included!
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You Know
TO WANNAHELP:
It has become rather faddish these days to speak of unconditional love. In reality there is no such thing, except perhaps in the narcissism so prevalent in society. Jesus and Jehovah certainly don't have today's version of unconditional love. Jesus himself said to his disciples at John 15:14---"You are my friends IF you do what I am commanding you." Did you notice that "if"? It's a tiny little word but it has a lot of meaning. Jesus' continued friendship with humans is very much conditional, based upon our obeying his commands. While most people that call themselves Christians may assume that they are somehow obeying Jesus' commands, Jesus plainly says that he will consider most people to be lawless hypocrites because they fail to do the will of his Father. (See Matthew 7:15-23) Furthermore, Jesus said that his true family were not necessarily his fleshly relatives, but rather the ones who were like his mother and brothers and sisters were those who did the will of his God. So by that declaration Jesus definitely indicated that his intimacy was only with those special few that actually endeavored to please Jehovah God.
Christ pointed out thought that Jehovah loves his enemies and demonstrates that by making provisions for their continued sustenance. But such provisions are temporary. When Jehovah's forbearance will have at last accomplished its purpose, it then comes to an end. Then only those who really love God and Christ will be saved. Our love as Jehovah's Witnesses is also conditional. We do not put family relations before spiritual ones. But we do endeavor to show love to our enemies. Our ministry expresses this love. We are willing to extend ourselves to assist anyone regardless of their station in life or race or whatever, to come to know God. We are willing to go into the ghettos and risk our lives in other ways in order to help someone come to know the truth about Jehovah. But that love too is conditional. And if over time persons fail to respond to the extension of Jehovah's love---it is withdrawn. That's the way it is. / You Know
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29
WHY THE WATCHTOWER IS DOOMED!
by You Know inisaiah 30:21 is an oft quoted scripture by the watchtower.
it reads: "and your own ears will hear a word behind you saying: "this is the way.
walk in it, you people, in case you should go to the right or in case you should go to the left.
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You Know
The Society's interpretation of Mattew 24:45 as applying to itself is completely wrenched out of context. The verses before and after -- by the Society's own teaching -- apply to a time future from now.
I know. I taught you that some time ago on H2O. But apparently we are going to have to go back over the main points as you seem to have gotten things a bit messed up. There are two appointments Fraudbacker, count them---2. First is when Jesus speaks in the past tense, as in "whom his master APPOINTED over his domestics." That's the first appointment, and it is in the past from the present moment when Christ is speaking during his parousia. The second appointment is in the future. That's why Jesus speaks in the prophecy, as if his presence is already underway, which of course it is at the point when these prophecies become relevant, speaking in the future tense, saying: "Truly I say to you, He WILL APPOINT him over all his belongings." That second apointment is future and awaits the arrival of Christ and the commencement of the judgment period to become fulfilled. / You Know
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Dear Brother "You Know"
by AMNESIAN inbrother, please, if you would, inform as to exactly what your genuine view is of the wbts and, particularly, the gb in relation to bible prophecy, christianity, and its self-professed role as the so-called "fds" and sole spokesman for jehovah?
much of what you post (or, at least, the posts i've read) is clearly at tremendous odds with their published teachings, yet, on its face, your position seems to be as one of their staunchest defenders/supporters.
i don't wish to in any way ridicule you ---there's a bit too much of that around here (from you included!
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You Know
Dear Brother;
I am a very active publisher and frequent auxiliary pioneer. I have been in the truth for 25 years. I have had a heavenly hope for the last 5 years.
I believe that the Watchtower has served God's purpose, but as I have indicated, it appears from the prophecies as if the physical part of the organization is going to be discarded by Jehovah during the tribulation. The way it has served Jehovah is by educating people in the basics of Christianity and providing a genuine basis for faith in God and hope in his incoming kingdom. It has also served a vital function in drawing into focus the long obscured scriptural issues having to do with the vindication of God's sovereignty when Christ's kingdom comes completely into power, as well as the issues involving our integrity to God. Primarily it has provided the fanfare and legal foundation for Christ's kingdom to situate itself into world affairs.
It is similar to the function served by the typical nation of Israel, in that they set the stage for the arrival of the Messiah. But, once the Messiah arrived, then God's purpose in connection with fleshly Israel and Jerusalem was finished and he disbanded the nation. Interestingly, of those who were supposedly in expectation of Christ, only a remnant actually accepted Jesus as the Son of God. All the others stumbled over him in one way or the other. That's why Jesus is in fact called the "stone of stumbling." Do some research and you will find that Jehovah acknowledges that his own spirit directed and beloved people are going to bring reproach on themselves as well as set an enormous stumbling block before all those of God's household.
So, the many prophecies indicate that the way things played out in the 1st century stand as a pattern of things to come. That is to say, that Christ, as the head of an imperfect body of anointed believers, will once again stand as a looming and potentially lethal stumbling block to all those not fully devoted to his God. That's the final test that will confront all those who hope to gain salvation.
As regards the faithful and discreet slave, what is little appreciated is that the illustrative prophecy points out that when the master arrives to inspect his household that the faithful slave gets beaten with a few strokes because he was ignorant of certain aspects of his master's will. That is in contrast with the evil slave that gets punished with the greatest of severity. The more detailed account of that parable is in the less-cited 12th chapter of Luke. So, there is an ultimate judging that awaits the anointed house of God as well as the other sheep. And that's of course in line with Jesus' parable about his judging the sheep and the goats during the time when his brothers are laid low.
So, while I am aware of numerous deficiencies in the Watchtower's present teaching, I don't seize upon these as a reason for apostatizing from Jehovah. I am loyal to God and my brothers and am determined to wait on Christ to sort all this stuff out when he arrives. The way I figure it, you gotta dance with the one that brung ya. The Watchtower has taught me many wonderful things about God for which I am deeply grateful. It sorrows me to see the all the difficulties coming upon the organization, but it's all a part of God's purpose to refine his people and settle the issues that Satan has raised. I hope to write more on this later. / You Know
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29
WHY THE WATCHTOWER IS DOOMED!
by You Know inisaiah 30:21 is an oft quoted scripture by the watchtower.
it reads: "and your own ears will hear a word behind you saying: "this is the way.
walk in it, you people, in case you should go to the right or in case you should go to the left.
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You Know
You are delusional. You have never argued nor provided documentation. You are in fantasyland if you imagine that your little twirling emerald skull and bones is anything other than nonsense. / You Know
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Aluminum is dangerous!
by Kent inthe watchtower was extremely preoccupied by what they called aluminum poisoning, and they published death rates because of this in their magazines.
the increased use of aluminum cooking utensils was the reason for the problem, they said.. not everyone who uses aluminum gets cancer, of course, but all stand a chance of getting it, they wrote in the the golden age september 23.
1936.. read this article for yourself, and take a closer look at the medical expertise inside the watchtower!.
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Read it again Joelbear. Aluminum poisoning is cumulative. They mentioned antacids as well as aluminum cookware. / You Know
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WHY THE WATCHTOWER IS DOOMED!
by You Know inisaiah 30:21 is an oft quoted scripture by the watchtower.
it reads: "and your own ears will hear a word behind you saying: "this is the way.
walk in it, you people, in case you should go to the right or in case you should go to the left.
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You Know
Like I said Fraudbacker, "no apostate can refute what I put forth." You wanna give it another try or just be content to leave well enough alone and just let that spittle slowly drool down your chin? / You Know